Mixers Formula Sound - (Hilo Oficial)

Frank-F
#1231 por Frank-F el 22/03/2024
#1230

Pues estamos bien…… pensaba que eso estaría solucionado una vez volvieron a ponerlas a la venta, ya que eso prometían en la web….. pero veo que no.

Os dais cuenta que como los mixers de antes no hay nada??
Todas, absolutamente todas, salen con alguna historia sino es antes, es después. Que pena….
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Pepe Lee
#1232 por Pepe Lee el 22/03/2024
Frank-F escribió:
#1231 Os dais cuenta que como los mixers de antes no hay nada??
Hablamos de Fórmula supongo, yo fuera de fórmula...tengo otras mesas y ningún problema, duran lo que tienen que durar y al final hay cosas como los faders y ciertos elementos que tienen su vida útil y ciclos de uso
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RubenNH
#1233 por RubenNH el 22/03/2024
Yo he tenido varias Formulas compradas nuevas actualmente y podría decir que casi todas (por no decir todas) han dado problemas.
Esto ha hecho que pierda mi fe por cumpleto en lo que Formula es actualmente.
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Borgio
#1234 por Borgio el 31/03/2024
#1233
Yo he tenido dos FF 4.2, con esta última llevo meses y no he tenido ningún problema.
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Uberbreakz
#1235 por Uberbreakz el 08/04/2024
Buenas tardes

Tengo un problema con una FSM600 que compro un amigo por internet, al parecer el vendedor dijo que estaba todo bien pero la mesa no suena de ninguna manera, solo suena un canal y a muy bajo volumen

Alguno tendriais el manual de servicio o los esquemas o diagramas de la mesa? Me hariais un gran favor a ver si le devolvemos la vida a la mesa y la alegria a mi colega, que no ha podido ni probar la mesa el pobre

Una duda que me pasa por la cabeza es, si estando la mesa encendida muevo los pines podria provocar este fallo que tiene? En caso de ser asi, sabriais que componentes se habrian visto afectados?

Un saludo y muchas gracias

Larga vida al grupo y al sonido de calidad 🖤
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Zitro mod
#1236 por Zitro el 08/04/2024
#1235

Lo mismo es matar moscas a cañonazos, pero como primer paso no es muy costoso: reemplazad los operacionales. No recuerdo exactamente si en la FSM-600 eran TL074 (lo más probable: 4 operacionales por integrado) ó TL072 (2 por chip), pero huele a que en algún sitio se han pirado operacionales, resistencias o condensadores.

Para cambiar resistencias y condensadores hay que desoldar, pero los operacionales creo recordar que iban en zócalo, así que es extraer uno y poner otro.

Si así no funciona, ya daría otros pasos.

Pero, eso sí: como tenéis que abrir la mesa (es muy fácil), aprovechad y mirad exhaustivamente cada placa, por si alguna pista está quemada, o veis algún componente reventado o quemado (lo más probable es que, de estar, esté en el módulo máster, por lo que dices de que parece ocurrir en todos los canales

Ah, y revisa también el bus flexible que interconecta todas las pkacas, no se haya cortado alguna pista, o se haya quemado el aislante y esté tocando el chasis...

Ya nos irás contando.
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Uberbreakz
#1237 por Uberbreakz el 08/04/2024
#1236

Muchas gracias por tu respuesta

Yo tambien he pensado en los operacionales asi de primeras, pero claro queria el diagrama para no tener que desarmarla solo para comprobar cuales lleva montados, que fuese desarmarla con los repuestos ya en casa para meterle mano jeje

Coger el soldador no es ningun problema, como si hay que sustituir media mesa jeje

Los condensadores le eche un vistazo asi suave con las carcasas laterales quitadas y no se veia ninguno mal, pero claro tampoco tenia la mejor vista de todas sin desmontarla por completo

El bus flexible en principio no es, fue lo primero que se me ocurrio sin tener que desarmarla por completo jeje, pero ya que me lo has dicho mirare bien placa por placa, resistencias, condensadores y todo lo que se pueda mirar, a ver si tienen esos operacionales en la tienda de confianza y le puedo meter mano pronto, que vaya faena….

Gracias de nuevo por preocuparte, ya ire actualizando la cirugía a ver como se da

Un saludo master!
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1
Javier
#1238 por Javier el 29/04/2024
Buenas, adjunto video para que veáis lo que llevo mirando hace unos días.

El caso es que veo que el canal L siempre marca algo mas de nivel.

En el momento del video le estoy metiendo desde YouTube unas señal de entrada de 1Khz para comprobar el nivel de ambos canales.

Alguno puede hacer la prueba?

El video de muestra de 1Khz es este: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyD9cMarVJk

Video : https://youtube.com/shorts/nk4AOjSQfAE?feature=share
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Javier
#1239 por Javier el 01/05/2024
#1238
He escrito a Formula sobre el problema de que marque más nivel un canal que otro.
Y me ha contestado Barry.
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Borgio
#1240 por Borgio el 01/08/2024
#1234
Buenas Formuleros, por si alguien le interesa voy a poner a la venta una FF 4.2 con 18 meses de garantía, totalmente nueva, por si alguien está interesado dejo email:

jcganan@gmail.com
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scar_boss
#1241 por scar_boss el 02/08/2024
#1219 para lo que tu buscas, formula tiene los mejores previos en phonos que yo probe, mucha fuerza y sonidazo, muy por encima de las rodec, que ya hablar.
Lo malo, sus precios
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1
numind
#1242 por numind el 13/08/2024
Buenas,

Lo primero que estoy buscando una FSM400 15" blue, lo segundo que os voy a contar la historia de las formula sound actualmente, ya que compre en enero la ultima unidad que van a fabricar y los de UK han decidido hacer la devolucion del dinero.
He tenido una FSM600 desde el 2004 comprada nueva y ya detecte algunos fallitos, pero lo de la 400 se han sobrado, filtraciones de radio FM por los input riaa, hum del cable de alimentacion en algun canal, el paneo de los auriculares invertido, acabados penosos....

Atentos a las respuestas que no tienen desperdicio:

Alguien escribió:
Hi

1 Phones volume pot sounds dirty

This type of thing happens when equipment is not used for say a few months, pots start to set in position.

The mixer was tested before shipment so all pots were operated at that point so its not something that should have appeared after a week or so in transit, shipping can be rough so its possible the vibration of shipping had some similar effect. Has it happened since or or was it only there on first use ?.

2 Noise when power cable moved.

Should not be touching the power cable when its live, it carries mains power which potentially could be lethal so I would not do it. Any investigation like the video I would use an insulated clamp to hold the cable.

The natural position of the cable is between the PCB's, the cables own tension would not allow it to reach the position in the video where maximum pickup was observed. We will look at tying the cable in place, the noise floor is tested in several ways before shipment to ensure it meets specification.

The noise floor of any mixer is raised by any gain/amplification applied to it so testing at maximum volume will always increase the noise level.

3 Alignment of knobs

The knobs are hand fitted, they are push fit onto a spline shaft which means you get one chance to make them perfect because the spline cuts grooves in the inside of the knob, if you remove one and reseat it you will find it locates the grooves from the first fitting and so once fitted its either accept a tolerance or throw the knob away and fit another one.

I would say looking at the pictures the knobs on your mixer would be borderline accept/reject, we would need the mixer back to make a measurement to be certain if they are out of tolerance but they certainly are borderline. I will add we have been moving away from centre detent pots for this very reason, in real terms a 1mm offset on the pointer makes no difference because the settings of pots are to taste or for effect not a 1mm difference in the position of the pointer. For centre most use the feel of the detent rather than look at the pointer, the pointer becomes more important when there is no centre detent however even with no detent a 1mm error is not going to have a noticeable impact.

The biggest detriment is visual appearance.

4 Most annoying channels - I assume you mean most noise channels.

MIC and phono channels have lots of gain, the phono channel gain varies with frequency but is highest at low frequencies.

5 Master at max means more noise in phones

The phones out is master until a cue is pressed, so with no cue the noise from master will depend on master volume.

6 Floppy transformer.

The transformer should not be floppy, the fitting instruction should mean this should not happen.

7 The marks drawn in blue pen.

The front panel is checked to be blemish free, the reverse side which is mostly hidden can have a mark from assembly, these may be covered to seal the surface during production and as far as I can see this is what this is.

8 The second email showed pictures of the cover slightly bulging at the corners.

This is a tolerance issue, the mounting hole position in the front/rear panels together with the dimensions of the 4 support pillars together with the tolerance in the folded covers.

If the tolerance of each part on each side is 0.2mm then thats 3 x 0.2 = 0.6mm on one side and another 0.6mm on the other side adds up to 1.2mm in extreme, having looked at the stock it appears the covers need to be 0.6mm bigger to fit more comfortably.

9 Punch

The punch button has not changed in the sense that we use the same switch and button we always have, the panel dimensions are unchanged and the PCB is unchanged. What seems to have happened is the supplier of switch and button has slightly changed the button. Looking at the older buttons they do appear to be a slightly better fit and have a slightly different feel. It looks like the supplier has probably retooled the button and is using a slightly different material with the effect the button is slightly different size, I will investigate further.

I am sorry there are so many issues with your FSM400.

I will add the design is unchanged in 25 years, there are a significant number of things we would do better today for the same functionality, but what was very good 25 years ago is now more ordinary. That said your mixer certainly should not have had a floppy transformer.

You can either send the FSM400 back and we will address the issues, alternatively you can send it back later.

I hope I have answered all your questions, email me again if I have not.

Regards

Barry Penaligon

Formula Sound Ltd


Y tras esperar 7 meses pensando que iban a poder hacer algunas mejoras, me responde esta maravilla....

Alguien escribió:
Hi

The FSM400 was returned from Thomman, we had to inform them it was not economic to fix the mixer and that FSM400 was the end of production so we could not do a replacement and the only option was refund, so hopefully you have received a refund from the vendor you purchased it from which I presume was Thomman.


The cover bulging was due to slightly incorrect production of the covers, the covers we had in stock were the same so we would have had to purchase a batch of 50 to get replacement covers.

The mark on the back of the FSM400 faceplate would require another faceplate, again we would have to purchase a batch of 50.

The knob alignment and headphone left and right were possible to deal with.

The gain structure of the FSM400 is unchanged from the original, the full gains are high and the intention was the user would set to their requirement, the downside is the gains gain be set very high to levels that are unusable with a signal but without a signal the noise floor starts to become audible. Changing the gain structure is possible but would require a days work to test.

The LED's being picked up in the headphones at high volumes and depending on cable position is an unresolved issue from the original design and is present on the FSM600, generally the headphones are not operated at the level that picks up noise from the LEDs because with music its just too loud.

I am not sure if the last FSM400 was a bit worse than it usually is but we had a customer about 2 years ago that identified it and when we investigated we found it was detectable in the FSM600 also and that it was present for the original design so we accept there is an issue.

Fixing the LED breakthrough to headphones would require perhaps 2 weeks engineering work and even then we could not be certain more time might be needed.

The XLR's not gripping, the XLR used is an obsolete XLR and no longer manufactured, we have been using stock and the remaining stock is as those fitted, we believe there was a XLR that matched the XLR in the unit which is also obsolete however we cannot rule out the XLR's fitted and our stock is actually defective but its the only XLR that will fit the PCB so its not a fixable issue.


We had already decided to discontinue the FSM400 and the one you ordered was to be the last, the cost of fixing would be up to £4000 in engineering time, test time etc which is not economic so we relayed this to thomman.


Regards


Barry



Menudos personajes, encima que dedico tiempo para mejorar su producto

Aun asi sigo buscando una FSM400 de las primeras, que al fin y al cabo el sonido esta ahi y ya apañare los fallos que tengan.
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numind
#1243 por numind el 18/08/2024
Barry el que me chafó la ilusión de una fsm400...😂
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Zitro mod
#1244 por Zitro el 02/09/2024
#1242

Eso de que estén pintadas las placas de azul yo creo que me lo he encontrado en todas las FSM-600 que he tenido/abierto.

Por lo demás... la verdad es que me quedo muy sorprendido.
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Christopher Rayner
#1245 por Christopher Rayner hace 4 semanas
#1099 Hi,   I have just come back to this and wondered if the problem might be one or more of the IC's (op amps) on the master module.   They are easily replaceable and if blown could account for that earth sound and no music.  
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